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« CollegeStudent4582 wrote on Saturday, Sep 18 at 12:47 PM »
"Concealed carry on campus wouldn’t necessarily make for a safer student body, just a more paranoid one."
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. It is because I am significantly less paranoid when I open carry. Open carry of a handgun is a flat-out deterrent to crime and ninety different kinds of cattle manure that occurs in every day life. The last occasion I had to carry my firearm concealed, I was a mark for an easy snatch and grab at a gas station. Without my gun on my side, I was left with only two choices: Remain paranoid and wait for the other person to flinch or move in some manner that was appropriately threatening to use the firearm, or try to convince that person to step away from my car without taking it or its contents. A concealed firearm is not a deterrent of any sort; it is merely an absolutely last grasp at self-defense when a mortal threat has been made. A person carrying a concealed firearm presents no outward signs of being a threat to a would-be mugger, robber, or rapist any more than any other person walking down the street without a firearm. However, a person openly carrying a handgun, in a proper holster, gives anyone pause, only because our society is so used to the image that Hollywood has sold us that anyone (criminal, cop, kid, parent, or loner) will use a gun for the wrong purpose given a chance. People don't have any concern with cops running around with guns openly, or armored car personnel, despite the fact that the former is a state peace officer and the latter isn't. And yet the idea of a lawfully armed citizen walking around scares so many. Why is that? Is it because every time there is a story in the news about guns, it involves the misuse of firearms? Is it because of the video of the DEA Agent, proclaiming himself to be a firearms professional, negligently discharges a loaded firearm in a classroom full of students? Is it because anyone lawfully, legally carrying a firearm is mocked in the media? Or does the reason sit even deep in the psyche of so many who possess an abject fear of a firearm because it makes a really loud noise when you pull the trigger, and produces a magic-like destructive power? Our forefathers, who brought forth this great country on this continent and a few islands, were intimately familiar with firearms. Without firearms, the United States Of American would not exist and we would all be subjects of the United Kingdom. But I digress. Concealed carry of a handgun is absolutely useless against crime unless another person has already created a situation so dangerous that it justifies killing another person to remove one's self from the encounter. It is only through open carry of firearms that crime can truly be deterred. It won't stop all crime, because there are the criminally insane in the world just as in comic books -- but it will prevent some crimes of opportunity. The price for liberty is eternal vigilance. The price of true security may be negotiated at your nearest firearms dealer.
« TEEBONICUS wrote on Friday, Sep 17 at 10:43 AM »
"...The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to bear arms..."
*sigh* This is SO tiresome.
The Second Amendment doesn't GIVE anything, it GUARANTEES a pre-existing natural right.
This detail is perhaps the most important thing Americans must understand about inalienable rights - they are not GIVEN by our fellow men, they are intrinsic by virtue of our being human (endowed by our Creator, if you will), and as such, are by definition sacrosanct from authoritarian meddling.
« macgulley wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 06:22 PM »
I believe Mr. Owens' statement about law enforcement not supporting armed citizens is a bit misleading. I believe the data he is referring to is a poll of police chiefs and other political appointees. The officers on the street overwhelmingly support the right of law abiding citizens to protect themselves. I also would take issue with Mr. Owens belief that police officers would be unable to make the right decision in a situation where a citizen was protecting himself. I know several officers personally and I am confident that they can handle the situation correctly.
I would direct Mr. Duggan to the opinion paper of former Alabama Atty. Gen. Charles Graddick (ago-1984-205) to see what the law really says about open carry.
« ALRanger wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 06:12 PM »
While you can carry a firearm openly almost anywhere, a concealed carry permit may come with restrictions. It depends on your sheriff as they have discretionary power when granting licenses and can place any restriction on your concealed carry as they wish. Open Carry is unlicensed and basically unrestricted. However, it is not encouraged by some in law enforcement. Some may try to get you for "disorderly conduct" or violating 13A-11-52 of the Criminal Code. However, both of those charges are bogus but it works to discourage some from open carrying. For more info about this, go to AlabamaOpenCarry.com
« ALRanger wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 05:56 PM »
Concealed carry is available in most states and open carry is legal in 43 including Alabama. You can carry a gun almost anywhere in the state, open or concealed, except where it is posted or in a demonstration. For more on your right to carry, open or concealed, go to www.alabamaopencarry.com. This is what our site was created for. To teach law-abiding Alabama citizens what their rights are concerning the carrying our firearms.
« dilophosaurus wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 03:21 PM »
i agree with that guitar guy down there, but for different reasons.
the no guns on campus law should be repealed so that all of us god-fearing, gun-totin americans who actually use guns safely should be able to celebrate the service they're doing for the community. i guarantee anyone considering a virginia tech-esque attack on campus would think twice if they knew even 30% of the campus was strapped.
and what do you think is a better cheating deterrent? the possibility of getting sent to some snoozefest academic review board, or the sound of a gun cocking and the feel of cold, unforgiving steel on the back of your neck? yea. thats what i thought.
i for one would like to fire off a few rounds everytime someone makes a compelling statement during an in-class discussion. thats how the cowboys did it and thats how i want to do it.
in conclusion, "a well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of the free state, the right of the people to to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." doesn't say anything about "except on college campuses." i rest my case.
« whindsoull wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 03:19 PM »
Mr. Duggan is mistaken. Open-carry is legal in Alabama. State code 13A-11-50 states that it is illegal to carry a pistol "concealed about your person" without a permit. It takes no stance on non-concealed weaponry. As such, a pistol may be carried openly, with no permit, by anyone who may legally own one at all. There are AG opinions backing this up.
« whindsoull wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 03:12 PM »
It's unnecessary to work in the theoretical here--worrying about what might, hypothetically, happen. Concealed carry is allowed in 48 states, and is not a recent development. Because of this, we have a substantial body of data to show its effects.
Allow me to address each of the objections you bring up. Citations are at the bottom.
--"Consider trying to take steady aim while under fire, your classmates shrieking and fleeing madly."
About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000. And that is with citizens using guns to prevent crimes almost 2,500,000 times every year.
--"Increased weapons would only add to the confusion and perhaps lead to the wrong person being injured or even killed."
Less than 1% of all gun homicides involve innocent bystanders.
--"Perhaps it’s naïve and unrealistic to say a shooting on the level of Virginia Tech or Columbine wouldn’t or couldn’t happen at Auburn, but allowing guns on campus to try to combat outlier situations, situations which are difficult to predict and hard to prevent, seems like poor logic."
Actually, disallowing guns on campus makes a mass shooting situation much more likely to occur. It has been shown that multiple victim public shootings drop in states that pass shall-issue concealed-carry legislation. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.
--"The point is most likely moot, as no one should know you’re carrying a concealed weapon, because, as the name implies, it is concealed."
Now there is something we can agree on.
1: Shall Issue: The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws, C. Cramer, and D. Kopel,
Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994
2: Stray bullets and ‘mushrooms’, Sherman, Steele, Laufersweiler, Hoffer and Julian, Journal of
Quantitative Criminology, 1989
3: Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws:
Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, Lott John R., Landes William M.; University of
Chicago – covers years 1977 to 1995
4: Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws:
Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement, John Lott and William Landes, Law School of the
University of Chicago, Law & Economics Working Paper No. 73
« macgulley wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 02:02 PM »
This is a very apt quote: "the police arrive AFTER..."
No matter how hard they try, the police cannot be everywhere and the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled in Castle Rock v. Gonzales that individuals have no right to police protection (http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/CopsDontProtect.htm)
« guitar185 wrote on Thursday, Sep 16 at 01:57 PM »
The ban against concealed carry on campus only limits law abiding citizens from carrying, those who wish to do harm with a gun will simply ignore the law and bring a gun on campus anyways, so the law goes beyond pointlessness, its actually punishes and cripples those who legally are allowed to conceal carry. I really wish this short sighted and pointless ban would be lifted. I pray Auburn never ever has to experience anything like what happened at Virginia Tech, I know that if I was ever in a classroom where something like that would happen I would definitely want to take action, but without a gun there would be little or nothing I could do. And as for shooting under high stress situations that argument is a little weak, police officers who have been trained to shoot under stress sometime misidentify a target and an accidental shooting occurs. So should we be restrict their ability to carry since they could possibly shoot the wrong person? I think we would all agree that is a little ridiculous. Also I doubt that lifting the ban would create a nervous student body, due to the fact that the guns still have to be concealed. And as pointed out earlier in this very article "For all we know, classes could be full of students packing heat," and I don't think students are generally nervous about it,a least not that I have noticed as a current student, so I really don't think lifting the ban would create an environment of fear, that's quite a stretch. And as for "how far does the right extend?" question, there are already laws in place for good reason governing most of the places mention. They are prohibited in bars for obvious reasons, you don't want intoxicated people handing weapons, there are also federal laws prohibiting the carry of concealed weapons in municipal buildings, daycares, and schools, these can all be found by simply using google. I'm not entirely sure why the article's author questioned this, there are clear lines already in place governing these locations.
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